I too am a raised Catholic, but no longer a believer in organized religion. Nor do I have "faith" in any traditional sense. I often feel connected to the Eastern religions. And as I am married to a Jew, also have a fondness for the Jewish traditions and faith and sense of community.

I enjoyed this one H! You said many of the things I often think on this subject! Hope the school thing gets sorted out!

The local "good" school is Catholic and it surprised me just how many of the playgroup mummies discovered religion when their kiddos turned three. What surprised me even more was that the general concensus was that this was the right thing to do and how lucky you were to have married into/been brought up as the qualifying religion. Never mind that they hadn't been inside a church in years, they were now dutiful attenders.

Speaking as someone who had a huge row with a (very fanciable - is that wrong?) curate when she was sat next to me at a charity dinner the other night (She had a small rant about the illogicality of male domination in the church, I responded that logic and the church didn't mix, and threw Dawkins in like a hand-grenade...), I would advocate the hypocritical church route, as the Judeao-Christian teachings underly much of our culture, so it gives children a frame of reference as they get older and have to deal with Literature and Art.

At the same time, point out that God is only the anphropomorphic representation of the Good side of the Good/Evil dychotomy in the human psyche, so doesn't actually do house calls.

But Being Excellent to Each Other is a superb way to live, so run with that. JC had the right ideas, he just had a set of publicists who decided to make stuff up to fit the prophecies.

reminds me of the time ex and i so hedged our bets - he took the sprogs to the local synagogue and i the c of e sunday school. we hated every bit of it, apart from my gay vicar and in the end we went private.

Interesting post Helen - many of my friends have just been through the whole good school = going to church dilemma. Can't wait to hear how it all goes when you do take that step.

On another note: As a long time fan of Diamond Dave comments I have to say Dave I admire your honesty and applaud your bravery at "unmasking". Thanks for sharing - and of course we still love you! Let me know when you DO start your own blog - I for one will definitely subscribe.

I am a follower of Joesph Campbell's view that all religions are true in that they are metaphors for life.

As Zoraster is said to have said the worst thing that happened to religion is the invention of writing as it concretized religion and it ceased to grow and maintain relevance.

As Lazarus Long (Robert Heinlein's character) observed being a preist is a good gig if you have the stomach for it.

When lived in SW GA we were alwasy asked which church we attended (wife was also asked "Who your Daddy girl". My response I was an ethical Christian. Usually elicited a blank stare. MY associate responded he was a devout member of the First Aprophal Church of the Holy Sacriledge.

Loved the posting and agree wholeheartedly.

YOu're funny, Helen. The church will not burst into flames when you enter - church is not all for perfect people who have perfect faith - it's for those of us who aren't really sure what it is.

So, would you still like him if one of your posters confessed he was one of those Mormons?

Surprise! Diamond Dave unmasked, at last.

Little disclaimer here: I am probably one of the most imperfect people here (read any of my past comments) and a very imperfect follower of my faith. So if you're looking for a good Mormon example, keep looking, move along, nothing to see here. But I'm trying. I'm also trying to find more faith in myself so I can be a better person, and hopefully overcome my past screwups. I can testify that there are few people who provide better examples to me as the ones I meet at church, and I'm humbled that they put up with me and actually see good things with me. Heck, they even trust me to assist with Boy Scouts. Maybe there is hope for me yet.

As much as we're encouraged to share are beliefs, I still have a lot of my "mind your own business" training from the past that makes me reluctant to speak up to anyone other than who may share a genuine interest, so I'd make a pretty crappy missionary. I'm pretty accepting and accomodating of other faiths and views, provided there is no child sacrifice or pedophilia involved, and only ask others that they tolerate mine, or at least agree to disagree. I've been exposed to quite a bit in this world before I joined the church (courtesy of my wife, who feels every bit as imperfect as me), so few things shock me. I still have somewhat of a potty mouth, but I've tried to tone it down recently. I also have seen too many R-rated movies, but don't see many today because most are crap anyway. I also feel the need to vent and speak plainly at times, which I appreciate you, Helen, allowing me to do on your blog, in a forum where everybody understands and nobody is offended. Eventually I'll probably start my own blog. But what I post here is the real me. Real thoughts, real opinions, sometimes thoughtful, sometimes vulgar. Just like everyone else here. I certainly don't claim to be better than anyone else, if anything maybe a little worse. But I do respect each and every opinion here by Helen and all other posters. And if the missionaries knock on your door, at least give them some bottled water, even if you don't want to talk with them. They will definitely appreciate it.

So, ya still love me, Helen? ;) (sorry for the mini-post)

We considered doing the same due to the exact requirement at a school here in TX, imagine that, well organized religion does not cut it for me or my husband so ... public school it is!

Here is a funny - the Pastor at the very same school has a son on the same tball team as our son and he is the most arrogant father ever, we are having the end of season party at our house and serving lots of cold beer!!! I bet he won't come!

Oh, and your title immediately sent me back into the days of George Michael. :P

Well, if nothing else, your kids will get into school and you'll have more blog fodder. ;)

Helen,

Angus isn't old enough to qualify the two of you as May-December. Maybe May-September, but that's about it.

I'd expend some effort in the whole God/no God debate, but I've watched too many of those discussions devolve into flame wars. Fun for a while, but eventually too predictable and boring.
For the record, I regularly attend church, and not because I need to get my children into a good school.

The Mormon missionaries who come through our neighborhood are routinely some of the nicest, most polite young men I've ever met. The Jehovah's Witnesses? A bit less polite.

Sounds to me like you're exactly the kind of people whose door the mormons would want to knock on - historically Mormons love a good challenge.

J and I will probably be there keeping you company hell. One of our favorite sayings actually - "we're going to hell anyway, so might as well do it".

Regarding the school - I guess I'd suck it up and go for the kids sake too - I'd do just about anything for them (as evidenced by what I put myself through to conceive them in the first place).

have fun. and try not to laugh out loud at the sermon.

@Ms Pants - I LOVE Eddie Izzard. I needed that laugh right now. Thanks.

This is gonna sound contradictory but I believe that Babylove and his father are proof that God loves me and wants me to be happy - BUT I am seriously against organized religion.

I have had far too many people tell me (Really! Not just making this up!) that I'm going to Hell to have to get up every Sunday and subject myself to that sort of treatment VOLUNTARILY.

However, if it meant that my son would derive a good education? I'd suck it up, too.

I am with you on the hypocritical thing - it seems to be part and parcel of every "Christian" I've met - with very few exceptions. 'S too bad, too. Because I really do think The Big Guy gets a bad rap.

But really - does anyone think He gives a flying flip if I go to Tuesday's Pot Luck Dinner?

Not with malice in my heart, he doesn't.

I hope a more suitable alternative comes up in the meanitme, lovey.

(Someone's been mucking about in the filter again. I got filtered for saying s-o-l-u-t-i-o-n. Wot?)

We once had the nice Mormon boys come knocking on our door. It was cold & rainy and we actually felt quite sorry for them, as they were very damp and clearly chilly. We invited them in and offered them a drink (AND refrained from offering either caffeinated or alcoholic beverages - I'm STILL proud of myself for resisting that particular temptation). We had a lovely conversation with them, allowed them to pray for us and to give us a Book of Mormon (our comment, "Yeah, we need one of those for our shelf of religious texts" and sent them on their way quite certain they had done their best but that we were a lost cause (having illustrated a pretty good understanding of the Mormon faith and clearly being completely uninterested). They haven't visited us since.

I'm pretty sure I saw two young girl Mormons walking down the street today, though. Will have to peek out the front door and see if they left anything out there for us.

J and I consider ourselves moderately religious, but neither of us will ever go to church again regularly. Too many bad experiences with hypocrites and evil gossipy people. It's better this way, though, because I get to celebrate all the holidays I want, and the ones that mean something to me. Not just what some patriarchical asshole decided I should hundreds of years ago.

We are getting a Mary statue to keep away the zealots, because in our neighborhood they are not Mormons, they're Jehovah's Witnesses. I'd get a buddha, but I doubt they'd know who he is.

Well, I can't stand religion. I don't say that to people, of course, I pretend I think it's just fine; I don't like hurting people's feelings but honestly when I hear someone believes in some structured spiritual process that we need to do in order to be closer to God, it's as if they said they still believe in Santa Claus. Inside I'm thinking, "are they fucking KIDDING me that they believe in that BS?" Seriously. It amazes me that some human beings can believe that crap and are still intelligent enough to have a driver's license too.

Maybe that's why Mormons ride bikes so often. AHAHAHAHAH! *takes a deep breath*

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I crack me up. :)

Religion is about fear of death; that's all it is. People are afraid to die so they grab onto whatever hokey BS con is given them so they feel better about dying. Show me one religion that doesn't have some type of afterlife.

There isn't one.

Oh god, what is my hairdo all about?

LOL, the things we will do for our children! I too am a recovering catholic.

(Ah, I love Steve too. Hi, Steve!)

Don't let the Mormons in the house. Mormons are quite nice (I went to high school in a highly concentrated Mormon area) but if you let them in when they are on their rounds, they will never leave!

What is a May-December relationshp?

I still have a few years yet to prepare for the church=good school when Elizabeth hits middle school. I adore her elementary school, but I've heard nothing but miserable comments about all of the middle schools unless we move outside of the perimeter in Atlanta. Which won't be happening without a large Lottery win.

I'm with you on the whole religious thing. I believe there is something bigger than me, but I can't specify. My in-laws go into convulsions everytime the subject comes up because we never baptised our kids. Ever. As my husband says, "I don't believe in any religion that says if you're some guy in the Amazon who has never met a missionary and been taught about Christianity that you're going to hell." Yup. That pretty much says it all to me. Oh, and the fact that "our" local church (we married in, gah) didn't have anything to do with us until they finally badgered a "donation" out of my husband. Bastards.

I'm one with the Catholic guilt; and feel a particularly high level because I have become a C&E (Christmas & Easter) church goer; although my children go more often because I've sentenced them to Catholic school.

Its amazing what we parents put ourselves through for cute little babbies isn't it?

Ah, so much to say about the religion thing that I can't get my thoughts straight but I just have to point out that the colored mascara IS back here in the good ol' U.S. of A. It's in the drug stores and the fancy stores.

and the 80's clothes too.

Ironically the Mormons don't come to my house either...and I WANT them to. Maybe it's the 777 the super model Mrs. Solomon and I have tattooed on our foreheads. :)

God owes you money? Dang, He gave you life, two beautiful children, and a good job. One would think you could let Him slide on the $20 He "owes" you. I'm just sayin'. :)

Look at it this way - i always find the best babysitters at church! ;) Think of it as sitter shopping so you and Angus can have a night out sometime!

Religion fascinates me. I am not a religious person at all, never attended church except for weddings/funerals, and wasn't baptized either. I live in a deeply religious area, and having grown up here am used to it. Adam isn't religious either, although he was baptized and did go to church occasionally growing up-but he is more cynical than me. I am interested in religion more as a social phenomenon then anything, and I am honest when I say I don't understand a great majority of it. I try very hard to be respectful of people's beliefs, as I want them to be respectful of my lack of any, but it is hard sometimes. Nothing turns me off more then a preachy person condemning me to hell before they even get to know me (after which they surely will any way-margaritas anyone?). And the first question out of many people's mouths here is "what church do you attend?". Makes it difficult for the kids sometimes at school, and as I went through it too I know what it feels like.

I try to live a good life, and not be hypocritcal, and I find a lot of religions just don't jive with that. I would be in moral conflict everyday with some of the things they teach. Better for me to just go about the way I always have. It is up to my children to decide what they want to do, and I will try my hardest to accept and respect whatever path they follow.

I always think of an episode of "Roseanne" when people ask me what religion I practice. When asked what religion they follow, Dan says something to the effect of "we just try to be good people", to which Roseanne offers "yeah, but we're non-practicing."

Our prevailing religion is an ecclectic non-wiccany-pagan mix of things we really believe in. I come from a VERY protestant family. They are all firmly convinced I, my husband, and my children, are going to hell since we don't weekly go to church and play hypocrit.

I do, however, want my children to be exposed to a wide variety of religions, so they can make their own choices about what fits for them. While I may not have chosen to be christian as an adult, I do think it had a big part in establishing who I am and what is important to me, so I can't entirely write it off.

Sucks to have to go to get priority at the school though.

I was once the religious zealot in my family. My first marriage (I prayed for a nice, Godly man, and the good Baptist I married was an abusive asshole) kind of turned me off to religion.

Hubby and I are not religious. At all. He claims to be an atheist. I view myself more as a Deist.

We're heading to hell. And did you know we got married on Halloween. Satan's Holiday. And we didn't even get married in a church?

My mother: "I can't believe (husband's ex-wife) is going to allow (husband's daughter) to be at your wedding."
Why not, mom?
"Well, I've heard about your parties?"
So, what, you think we're going to be sacrificing a goat or something? It's a wedding. Nothing sinister about it.

::beats head against wall::

I pretty much agree about the religion thing. Except I still get approached by the Jehovah's witnesses, which is extra awesome when you go outside to water a plant and get distracted pulling weeds in your pajamas only to be approached by a family handing out leaflets.

hehe "God owes me money". I am SO stealing that.

I recently attended a Bat Mitzvah and I found the whole experience to be a deeply moving one. It affected me in totally unexpected ways.

Oh, and my wife and I almost started attending the catholic church in our neighborhood for that very reason. Luckily, our kids tested into the gifted program so we didn't have to send them to a regular city school.

I'm with you on the not being religious thing, and I hate hate hate it when people try to force it on me. One of my friends told me I couldn't possibly like the Narnia series properly if I didn't appreciate and understand the whole deep religious background theme to it. These were some of my favourite books growing up, so it took a fair bit of willpower for me not to tell him to fuck off.