No, not me.
But since you mention it…
On this most romantic of Hallmark-invented holidays, I can’t help but think about relationships. Not just because everything seems to be the color of a lollipop stained tongue today, but because today’s supposed to be about love and happiness and Cupid and various affectionate shit. I am a bit of a fan of Valentine’s Day purely because I can see that for some, it’s one of the few days where their significant others are reminded that there is a day of the year in which the stops ought to be pulled out, and this is it. After receiving my own mushy Valentine’s Day card and gift (theatre tickets! Woot!) and supplying my own gift of card and presents (shirt and a wheelie bag! Nothing says “idolatry” quite like mobile luggage facilities!) I am left to dwell.
Well, there’s that. And there’s the fact that a few weeks ago some good friends of ours were due to come over to dinner. Only a few hours before the deadline, they cancelled. Why, you may ask? Pox? Winning lottery ticket? Better offer came in from the Queen? None of those, it transpired. Instead hours before the dinner party our friends decided to divorce.
If they didn’t like our cooking, they could have just said so.
I joke (although maybe there is something to that as they were the first of two families to have to cancel on us for dinner, the other one being last week and all our coeliac specialty cooking was thus unnecessary). I know at a time like that in someone’s life that getting back to someone on a planned evening of soufflé and red wine is far from the top of your to-do list. You can’t be dealing with plans that you had that night when you really need to start working out how to handle the plans you have for the next twenty years of your life. We sent our condolences, of course, but the truth of the matter is, I felt really odd about the whole thing. Why you may ask (which is a bit odd, since you’re reading this on a computer screen and it’s unlikely to answer)?
I felt odd because I knew that one of them was having an affair.
I didn’t know know. I mean, it’s not like I caught them in flagrante delicto in a bus stop or anything, no private eye turned up with torrid photos, I didn’t overhear a phone conversation when they were harpooning the squid. I didn’t have first-hand knowledge but a very trusted friend had told me. Which rather left me in a strange place.
Most of all I was surprised I didn’t know. I thought I had my finger on the pulse of the sexual proclivities of those close to us, apparently that’s not the case. If I was so far off to not know that one of them was riding the bologna pony someone else (and what’s worse is I also know the someone else!) then what else am I missing? Have a third eye popped out on my forehead? Is there a wild hippo luxuriating in the upstairs bath? This is major, how could I have not seen this?
What to do, what to do. What does one do? I heard several months ago about my friend’s naughty misadventures. I was kind of floored, but hey ho who am I to have a say? We are close to one of them but barely know the other, it could be that things were really bad at home. Maybe it was mutual. Key party, anyone?
I generally take a singular track when it comes to affairs that others are having: it’s none of my business. I’m not debating if it’s right or wrong that people have them because something like two thirds of all married adults are playing musical monkey beds. I’m only talking about what to do when you know about it. I am also not even a little bit religious, but I do buy that “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, and in this area I am most definitely without rocks. I take the line that my nice German therapist once told me – there is always more to a story than you know about. Maybe someone is cheating and there’s a reason – perhaps they have permission. Perhaps their loving partner is not interested in having relations at home any more (which opens another can of worms, which is “if they don’t want to, what does that mean for me?”) Perhaps the marriage spiritually ended years ago and the couple stay together for the children only. Who knows?
I once did tell someone that a person was misbehaving. Years and years and years ago in my first marriage (I shudder when I write that, I really do) I was driving and I saw my father-in-law waiting by the curb. I was going to honk and pull over when I saw someone else do exactly that, and I saw my father-in-law get in a car and very hotly embrace a woman who was most definitely not my mother-in-law. I know my eyesight isn’t perfect and all, but no way could my mother-in-law have dropped both 30 pounds and roughly the equivalent in years overnight.
I immediately told my husband, who didn’t handle that so well, seeing as this was his childhood hero launching an attack on someone else’s pink fortress. He asked me to tell his mother. Being young and incapable of thinking for myself, I did. Cue drama, family imploding, divorce, and epic amounts of blame, a good chunk of it on me. Lesson learned.
I generally take the line of: it’s not my business. It really isn’t. Not because I don’t want to deal with the drama but it really isn’t my business. What goes on behind a family’s closed doors is their affair (ha!). People generally get caught, get divorced, or get control of their lives and stop mis-behaving and commit to being a family and although yes, the explanation of “he/she is an asshole” is a reason why people step outside of their marriage, but life isn’t always so black and white. It’s not my place to force a hand on that, and if a friend told me in confidence that they were doing the horizontal mambo in someone else’s dance studio, I would listen, be impartial, and let them handle their lives. Besides that, if a friend is having problems, the one thing they need is support, not someone privy to their embarrassment or, moreover, one who would be in a position to say “I told you so”.
Is that the right thing to do in these situations? Is there a right thing or is it always on a case-by-case basis? I don’t know. Would you tell if you knew? Maybe I should tell anyone engendering on a friendship-like scenario with me that should their spouse take the top cat to someone else’s tuna town*, would they like me to tell them? Although that might be enough to put most people off – “Hey, be my friend! I am precipitating the demise of your happy relationship! It’s like my little anti-Cupid gift, the little fucker!”
-S.
* Seriously, I can keep up the metaphors all day.
I have such a profound distaste for cheating (not necessarily non-monogamy: though it’s not for me I do believe it can work for others) that I think I would have to tell. Also, I’m a terrible liar, so it would either be that or avoid them for ever.
Here’s my two cents. Part of it’s religious based, but part of it is common sense based…I think. :) The religious part: Jesus said, “So in everything do to others as you would have them do to you.” (Matt 7:12) If the Super Model Mrs. Solomon was cheating on me, I’d want to know.
The common sense part: we’re talking life & death maybe. With AIDS out there, one selfish parent could orphan their children in a few short years. And even if the “cheater” didn’t bring home AIDS, there’s other, permanent and/or dangerous diseases he/she could bring home.
I found out one of my good friends was cheating on his wife and sent him an e-mail saying if he didn’t tell her, I would. He told her and they’ve since reconciled and are in family counseling. It doesn’t always work out that well, but it’s guaranteed to be worse the longer it goes. My thought is: go to the “cheater” first. It’s hard, but (IMO) it’s the right thing to do.
I have no idea what I would do, but I do know that the one that opens their mouth gets the blame….
Well – I am completely rabid about monogamy if you’re married. No ifs, ands or buts. Years ago I told my husband that a close member of our family was having an affair – I could see it on their face. Of course, I turned out to be right, not that I took any pleasure in that. I would not tell – simply would not, even now. Frankly, it’s not my business. I will say that I have very negative feelings (till death) about people who do cheat. I feel that they will do it again and again. I always wonder why somebody who cheated on a spouse (or with someone else’s spouse) is so sure it will never happen to them.
Stay out of it. I say this as someone who was cheated on who worked through it and is still married 20 years later. It is painful enough without having to justify your stance to someone else if you do decide to stay.
I’m pretty much with everyone else on monogamy in marriage – cheating on your betrothed spouse, regardless of the reason, is one of the lowest things one can do to another. That being said, normally I stay out of other people’s matters for pretty much the same reasons that Shannon gave. But a good friend would likely know how I feel about cheating, so they would be best off leaving me out of the loop, lest they incur my blunt feelings about the subject and counsel that they clean their house rather than force me into the position of having to choose between their friendship and doing the right thing. What is worse is if I happened to be good friends with several, or all, the involved parties. In that case I’d likely back out and avoid them all indefinitely, just to stay away from the drama.
Okay, did that make sense?
Tricky situation. I’ve never thought about it.
On another plane… I’m grappling with a dearly loved friend who is choosing to stay with her physically abusive asshole husband. And when they recently came to visit, I had a very, very, very hard time concealing my new-found hatred for her husband. But, I will be my friend’s friend. I’ll be supportive. And I’ll be there for her, god forbid he touches her again.
Don’t let the cat out of the bag and mind your own beeswax (idioms, I love them!) is my motto. Though I do think it is difficult to be around said couple if I do know. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss, and better to let sleeping dogs lie than stick my nose in somebody else’s business (somebody stop me!).
Out of 8 comments and Helen’s post, the common consensus seems to be not to get involved. I’m curious: would you want to know if your spouse/mate was cheating on you? I would.
Also, how will it be if/when someone finds out a friend knew about the affair and didn’t tell him/her? That kind of stuff frequently comes out once the crap hits the fan. They might feel like their “friend” who remained silent betrayed them too.
Your metaphors are hilarious.
As a friend, I am in the I don’t want to know camp. What I don’t know I can’t think about, pondering, over analyze so much that it keeps me up at night. I am privy (heard second hand) to a one-time deal of a friends of ours and I wish I didn’t know having to socialize with the people time from time to time. If I were being cheated on I don’t think I’d want to know.
Oh my. Can of worms, dear Shannon, can of worms. Incredibly difficult, no “good” answer situation. I subscribe to a combination of beliefs shared before: 1)You never know–I know a couple who has a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. Their reasons are their own, but I know this from them both. This isn’t something that is widely known, and I’m sure a well-meaning not-in-the-know friend could disclose something better left unsaid. 2)Health and safety are precious, and I don’t think a friend should let anyone be cavalier with another’s well-being. How that works with item #1, I’m not so sure. 3)What Solomon did going to the cheater first is probably the best strategy if one feels compelled to report. It gives the people *in* the relationship the power. My personal experience is this: I was cheated on by a live-in boyfriend with whom I had a clearly monogamous agreement. When he confessed to me that it had happened and it was over, I was livid–about the confession. He confessed for himself, not for me. He could have made sure he was disease free, ended the relationship, and put effort into ours without putting me through imagining him with another woman. Honesty is truly the best policy, and having an appropriate conversation with one’s partner either to end before the cheating or to address the problems that made the cheating attractive before unzipping one’s pants is really the only good answer. Yes, this topic really has me thinking. Sorry to ramble.
OH the dilemma when faced with this. I think if I were the one being cheated on, I would want to know. Most of my friends and I have had the discussion “If you find something out, then you have permission to tell me, because I want to know” so at least I would know what to do in that situation. Wouldn’t it be far worse if you *did* know – and then it came out? Just thinking out loud like this, reminds me that its all such a grey area anyway, largely situational, and it would all depend on what your relationship to the person was.
The bottom line? I suppose I just think that cheating stinks. Period.
I wouldn’t want to know.
But I’d need to know.
I’d need to know that the man that I was with wasn’t the man I thought he was. That’s possibly the most important factor for me here.
And if there were circumstances that meant it was ok, and not a breach of trust? I’d rather you knew that, than went around thinking that my partner wasn’t trustworthy… Because that affects friends’ relationships too.
But it sucks that “don’t shoot the messenger” is so often observed in its breach…
You said harpooning the Squid, he he
I think that staying out of other people’s beds is generally a good idea. I’ve been stuck in that awful situation where the cheatee is a good friend twice. Once I told; once I didn’t. Either way ends badly. I have to say that I still would have come to dinner.
We once invited favorite neighbors over for dinner and by the start of the evening, we knew something was wrong. They separated shortly thereafter and eventually divorced. He had been caught red-handed with other women – yes – plural. I really wish that they had not accepted our invitation. It was a very strained night – so maybe you were lucky to have avoided that.
I would want to know if my husband was playing away but not sure if my friends would. Difficult one I think. It is probably something I would discuss with my husband if I knew a friend was being unfaithful but since he is more sensible than me he would say keep your mouth shut!
I really came to say that I bow in awe of the euphemistic genius here, but the comments got me thinking.
I think I’d want to know if someone was cheating on me. Maybe it’s because I have a slightly controlling personality and need to know as much as possible and not miss anything. But I would want to know. And I might be hurt when someone told me, but I would also be absolutely livid if I realized someone had known and kept it from me.
I think cheating is a horrible thing to do to someone anyway — if you truly care about the person you’re cheating on/considering cheating on, why not have a conversation about it and sort it out? It might be hard, but cheating will only make it worse. *shakes head*
My father knew my ex-fiance was cheating on me and never told me. It’s one of the few things I will never be able to forgive him for.
Flikka,
THAT is amazing, and I’m very sorry to hear that. If I found out my future son-in-law was cheating on my daughter, I’m not sure he’d live to see another sunrise. He certainly wouldn’t be dating my daughter after I told her.
As an aside, my daughters’ boyfriends will know exactly where I stand on them cheating on or mistreating my daughters, so there won’t be any confusion if/when they get married as to what will not be tolerated and what the consequences will be.
Hmm. I think the best route is the supportive route, whatever that turns out to be at the time. If, for example, one of them comes to you for advice, I’d try to get them to talk about what is going wrong, ask open-ended questions, and basically have them do all of the talking. I’d also note that couples therapy can be available for one person if they can’t talk their partner into it.
If it’s a situation that could be dangerous for the non-affair spouse (like you see the other one picking up a hooker), I’d hint around the issue. “Oh, I saw your husband at [x] the other day, wanted to say hi, but I missed him,” for example. Place the sighting just before or after the incriminating bits, and set up enough for the person to wonder. Basically, let them make any discoveries that need to be made.
But otherwise, just be supportive. That’s all you should really do.
Harpooning the squid? That’s a new one, and one to which I REALLY don’t want to know the etymology.
:-D