I’m struggling to see the true cause of the furore going on in my home country.
Yes, I’ve been away a while (10 years in November, in fact). No, I’m not completely up-to-date with the daily comings and goings of the place that I hail from. No, I don’t expect that America curled up into a fetal position and halted all growth and activity when my Converse-clad heels left the soil.
But what I don’t understand is how shockingly polarized America seems to be right now.
Yes, there’s been an election.
Yes, it got ugly.
Yes, there’s a new guy (and a new party) in town.
And from what I can gather – and yes, I’m away, and I get BBC which I frankly prefer because they appear to be non-biased – this is about health care.
Obama wants to create a universal health care plan – one in which, I read, he’s keen to dismiss ideologies and listen to anything the Democrats and the Republicans want to add. Surely that can only be a good thing, right? That’s he’s attempting to listen, a gesture of bipartisanship can’t truly be that anathema to progress on this, can it?
I struggle to see the issue here. I’ve lived in socialist states for 10 years now, and yes a huge chunk of my income goes to support this health care system. But at the same time, in both countries if I got sick, I went to the doctor. If I needed treatment, it was available. If I needed medication, it was free or cost a token and paltry sum.
It’s true that my job provides me with private health care and I have actually used it twice to jump the queue. Maybe my pink nature has a dose of capitalism in it (although I tend to be more of a social democrat than a socialist). I should be ashamed, but I’m not – the NHS is a baseline. Added to that baseline, my employer (and myself) top up the line with additional treats, like having access to private physicians in return for me paying a fee. For the most part I am completely happy with NHS care, but sometimes if I can queue jump (like having my joints taken care of) then I do.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – I’m a huge proponent of socialized health care. My tax money has gone to health care as of two days after my plane landed here (seeing as I arrived on a Saturday). The NHS saved the life of my babies a number of times when I was sick and in hospital during pregnancy. I have no doubt the twins would have arrived early had the NHS not intervened. They would have arrived early…too early. Each time I was hospitalized, including for the birth and subsequent stay of my son in SBCU (NICU), I paid…nothing. Oh wait, I tell a lie – I had to pay for parking. I think that was about £10. In return, I had good care. Was it as brilliant as I got in America? It was less plush, that’s for sure. The doctors were a little less about giving reassurance and cuddles than about keeping the boats floating. But that was ok – in return they turfed us out and we were fine.
Of course I have some issues with the NHS and I’d be surprised if anyone who used it didn’t. But I do remember being an American with no health care coverage. I remember being very ill and not being able to get treatment. I remember having to ask the doctors for samples because I couldn’t afford the medications. I know what it’s like to know things are going wrong with your health but having no money to be able to do anything about it. I lived it. I had friends and family that went bankrupt having babies, I remember a couple having their baby in Parkland because, as a county hospital, they had to be seen even though they had no excess money.
Not a rhetorical question here, but a real one – what’s the problem with implementing universal health care in America? I don’t understand, and perhaps I am missing some of the background. Are there other options on the table? From where I sit, isn’t it better that all people have access to health care when and if they need it? Don’t people deserve the right to have life-saving treatment without going bankrupt? Is the issue that it echoes of socialist agendas? What’s the real cause of the anger here? Can we at least agree that – socialism or no socialism – the health care system in America is broken and needs some fixing (and no I don’t have the answers. If I did, I’d be happy to share with you over a Tootsie Roll.)
But is all this really about socialism and health care? Really? Seems a bit heated for that. Is it more that the recession and economic climate have put people on a slow boil, that all of us (yes, ALL of us) are feeling the pinch in every way. People are losing jobs and homes. The cost of food and fuel is through the roof (as the goverment levies yet another petrol tax on us over here). The bank account gets a deposit in it once a month and about 6.7 seconds later it’s empty again.
I read with alarm that people have been getting wound up about a back-to-school speech. For fuck’s sake, how bad can that be? Do people really think a politician is going to get up and spout propaganda for the benefit of a political agenda? Hasn’t that been done, and haven’t lessons since been learned?
I read that parents pulled their kids out of school so that they wouldn’t hear a speech. A speech, a president’s back-to-school speech (I don’t remember these from my childhood, must be a relatively new thing. And seeing as I grew up in the military, I’m fairly sure they’d have piped in back-to-school speeches in my day) – what’s the big deal here? Surely it’ll be all about “welcome back to school, didja’ have a good summer, what’s on the reading list, blah blah blah….”
Pulling your kids out of school just so they wouldn’t hear a speech, just in case the president mentioned health care…sweet Jesus that smacks of a new level of intolerance. The truth is most kids would simply glaze over at the mention of health care. Visions of cheese strings and P.E. dance through their heads as the big guy with all the security staff blathers on in a way that will go in one ear and out the other. I can’t imagine a kid sitting there, listening to the president, going “Socialized health care. Gotcha’. Let’s get to it. Hang on, I’ll just grab my arm bands and banner, comrades!”
Then of course, I read about AISD (which, coincidentally, is the district where I went to high school). They not only didn’t air Obama’s speech, they’re bussing kids to go hear former president George Bush. No message to the kiddies there, then. That’s all above-board and fair. But then what can be expected from a state painted red?
I read Obama’s speech.
He tells them to work hard. Yup, I’m behind that.
Every one of them has something to offer. Yup – that’s good, too.
The circumstances of your life shouldn’t hold you back. Bang on.
Commit, work hard, stay in school. Yes yes yes.
I thought the speech was fantastic, and yes I am a Democrat and yes I did vote for him. But read it. Really read it. He admits he fucked up as a youngster. He tells kids – again and again – to stay in school, believe in yourself, find what you’re good at. Brilliant message, the lot of it – simple, dignified, and real. And I would’ve liked the message had it come from Obama, George Bush, or Sarkozy. It’s the message, not the orator (although yes, I have a preference for the orator, too.)
I think the furore over what the president might say is far more damaging to the psyche of little minds than what was actually said, the message being Fear what might be said to the extent that I won’t let you hear it.
I read that he said this, which is the very foundation of what my military background, my family history, and my (very quiet) patriotism believes:
Where you are right now doesn’t have to determine where you’ll end up. No one’s
written your destiny for you. Here in America, you write your own destiny. You make
your own future.
Sorry, but I don’t care if you’re a Democrat or Republican, Tory or Labour (albeit substitute “the United Kingdom” for “America” if that’s the case) – that’s a brilliant sentiment. Doesn’t matter whose political lips they come from, it’s absolutely a message that I think is appropriate for children. It’s a sentiment I support for my children. So why cause such a ruckus over a speech?
On this one, I say: Naughty grown-ups. Naughty, naughty grown-ups.
-S.
Well, in my disgustingly liberal, tree-hugging, granola-eating opinion (and understanding), what Obama wants to create is far from socialised health care (though we can’t use the “s” word here, it’s naughty and synonymous with Marx, Hitler, and the Smurfs). The public option is a step in the right direction, but certainly not NHS. Or France. But, as patriotic Americans, we know that the NHS would certainly have failed Stephen Hawking had he the misfortune to be British (yes, this is something that was actually argued) and that were we to pass the HR 3200, the government would kill our grandparents (urban legend created by morons based on a vastly misinterpreted and eventually discarded page 425).
Bah, I could go all day on this. But really, this article from The Onion sums it up best.
It’s not that I don’t think people should have access to healthcare and treatment. I was without coverage for a long while (read years) and buying my own premium would have been equivillent to me not working at all. I get it. I think the system is broken, but I also think the welfare and unemployment systems are also hugely broken and abused. I think our goverment is absurdly broken, it was before Obama, and it continues with Obama, I’m sure it will still be after Obama. Call me a synic, whatever, I’m good with that. Call me paranoid if you like, but I’m against a goverment run option simply because our goverment has already led us into such a huge gaping debt, I don’t see the need to provide more shovels. Why not consider other options? For example, open up some of the restrictive laws that don’t allow insurance companies to cross invisable bounderies and states, make it more competitive so that insurance companies have to up their game and reduce their prices. I’m interested in hearing more about the public co-op option that is only begining to be seriously discussed. Take a look at our welfare system and more realistically the abuse. There are truly deserving people who need assistance, problem is all the asshats abusing the system ruin the pot. Open up the system for competition, make the healthcare companies work for their earnings, revamp the doctor/pharmacetucial company “bonds”.
I voted for Obama, but I’m begining to have buyers remorse.
Now, I’m not afraid to admit I did not vote for him and I’m certainly not a fan of all of his ideas (although truly I was pretty sure regardless of the outcome of that election, we’d be screwed) but I’m right there with you about this speech. I hate that the morons out there screaming about him pushing political agenda on children. The part that gets me the most is that it was available online to read well before the speech was given, so any of those worried parents could easily read it before it was shown to their children, but I’m sure they didn’t bother. I thought it was really a great speech with a great message and of all the things to get worked up about, this one shouldn’t even register.
And while my option of the public option might not be the popular one here (and it has nothing to do with the imaginary “death panels” people are talking about. I mean, seriously, people?!) I just hope that they really take the time to work on it and don’t just pass the first thing that runs across their desk in an effort to just have something. This reform is just too big and too important to not consider very carefully.
The problem is what Al Franken referred to as “the tone”. “The tone” of politics changed subtly during the Reagan years, and was exacerbated by the politics of Newt Gingrich and Karl Rove.
We no longer have discussions, just relentless maniacs shouting talking points.
The real problem is that there are too many people making too much money off of the healthcare industry, and they’re not going to give it up without a fight.
The problem is our two-party system. They Republicans have a vested interested in seeing Democrats fail and vice versa. The Republicans only goal for the next 3 1/2 years is to see Obama fail so that they can regain power. And if there was a Republican in the White House, the Democrats would be wanting him to fail too. Politicians have lost sight of actually making this a better country for everyone, they are just out for themselves and their parties.
Honestly? I think there is a lot of not-so-veiled racism at work underneath the brouhaha. I know that there are plenty of people with legitimate concerns about health care reform, but the comments people have made at town hall meetings like “This is not the country I grew up in!” etc., or the woman weeping on CNN about Obama’s address to schoolchildren, “I just don’t want my children exposed to that!” seem pretty clearly to me to be about having a black man in power.
I got nothing brilliant to add on this subject except the frustration of watching it unfold. I’m socially liberal but tend to run fiscally conservative. I do not have a solution for health care (and, quite honestly, don’t even really file it at the top of my head as important. HOWEVER, I have kick-ass insurance through work so I admit that is probably why). All the town hall yelling – ok, I kinda get it. I thought it was a lot of mob mentality at work but I felt the media was going a bit far to suggest that conservatives were actually ‘organizing’ groups to go in a break up town hall meetings by being destructive. That is, until the controversary over the damn speech came up. Seriously. Whether or not you agree with how he is doing etc you have to admit the guy is classy and he isn’t going to do something so stupid as to push a political agenda to kids. *sigh*. So the debate I watched about this (last week sometime, CNN primetime) had a conservative pundint and a liberal (Roland Martin, didn’t recognize the conservative). SUPPOSEDLY what the conservatives were so upset about was the ‘lesson plans’ that were going to go along with this speech – at that time Obama wanted kids to write a letter to the White House stating how they can help the President. Oh boy! Now if that ain’t a cry for socialism I don’t know what is! Once again, not really that threatening if you ask me. When I was a kid, I’d want to try and help any president, be it Republican or Democrat. The white house changed it to, oh, I don’t remember now, something like ‘what you would like to do’ or something like that.
Ok I didn’t really add much to this conversation except that it pissed me off on so many levels. And I’m concerned about the thinly veiled racism this feels like to me. And I’m concerned that republicans are going to become even more isolated and withdrawn from this whole process, trying to find ways to scream ‘booya!’ in the corner.
Jennifer: There were conservative organizations bringing people in. A friend of mine attended a town hall outside Baltimore and saw them arrive by the busload.
Right now my biggest issue (and the fact that nobody in power on either side will address it) is the steady erosion of the basic rights of all Americans by a block of elites in power. And whenever the government expands its power, like it’s doing right now, such erosions become progressively worse. It’s no secret that the government can’t manage it’s way out of a paper bag, so no one is going to trust the government to fully run health care, let alone any other section of the economy. And we’re tired of being taxed to death to fund questionable causes, only to see the government (both state and federal) squander it in voting themselves pay raises or funding pork projects. But most of all (particularly me), is the fact that we’re sick of the creeping nanny state trying to control what foods we eat, what cars we drive, how we discipline our children, how much we should weigh, etc. Some things the government needs to keep their damn noses out of, like our personal lives. Oh, and the latest debate is whether or not people should be fined for not carrying health insurance! Talk about the epitome of asininity. Even Obama himself said he wouldn’t support such a thing (one of the few things I actually agree with him on).
I could go on and on, but I’m not big on debating politics. And I hope that anyone else that comes here can be respectful and not shower you with insults and death threats like what happened a while back. You deserve more respect than that. My problem is that I believe in moderation, and think that with a little cooperation from everybody we could have the best of both worlds. But when the lunatics are running the asylum (both left AND right extremists), we’re all screwed.
My problem with government-run healthcare is that Medicare is due to go broke in ten years or thereabouts because of poor management, and we’re supposed to trust the people who can’t fix that to create a system that is many times larger and (they promise) won’t go broke?
That and the fact that many Congresscritters were out there stating flat-out that they wouldn’t read the thing before they voted on it. That’s jaw-droppingly obnoxious. Casual people digging around in some of the plans saw clauses that would do things like require you to go on the public option if you changed jobs, and which created HUGE financial incentives for businesses to take the public option rather than provide their own, so a lot of people who like their current option were upset. I think a large part of it is that many people are happy with their current healthcare and don’t want to be forced into a one-size-fits-all option.
P.S. The “veiled racism” is a charge that has been slung around at the least hint of disagreement, and it’s cheeving a lot of people off. Some people just don’t like the man’s policies.
How timely— I just ran across an article by Adam Baldwim (Jayne in Firefly) that explains the furor in reasoned tones— why some people got upset and all.
I didn’t read the comments, so proceed with caution there.
I don’t like to talk politics, but I am damn sick and tired of all the in-fighting. Politicians want a real slice of American life? Go to the county fair-there are all kinds wandering around. Ask some of them what they want-what they need.
I am also not a big fan of our government right now-too much self interest on both sides. What I would like to see is everyone thrown out and some fresh faces in there. Our government seems to forget: “The people’s government, made for the people, made by the people, and answerable to the people.” Of course it doesn’t help when most of the “people” have their heads up their asses and can’t stop fighting amongst each other-and don’t even get me started on the media. Talk about adding fuel to the proverbial fire.
I didn’t vote for Obama, but he is our president now and I respect that. The part of his speech you highlighted is fantastic-people seem to forget that in America we have the right to pursue our own happiness, but not a guarantee we will get it. That is up to the individual, and some time it takes a lot of work. Doors should be open to those who want to try, and options should be out there for those who want to take them. And that’s all I got to say about that.
The problem is our two-party system. They Republicans have a vested interested in seeing Democrats fail and vice versa.
As far as I’m concerned, it’s this. Sure, the current debate is framed in terms of healthcare reform, but this kind of in-fighting would still be going on even if the topic were different. I’m sure there was a time when politics was about what you could do to better your country, but that time is long gone. Politics these days is becoming more of a competitive sport. It’s all about winning at any cost and being on the winning team when it happens. Add to that the news media’s willingness to repeat anything and everything even slightly controversial for the sake of ratings, even if it has no basis in reality, and well… you end up with our current mess.
My real problem is having the government run health care. From past experience (Medicare, Social Security and many other government programs) we know that they are not the best money managers. That’s what scares me the most about the whole mess.
I don’t see the furor either living in a country (Canada) with universal health care. I can’t imagine my baby being sick and not being able to take him to the doctors because I couldn’t afford to. A few weeks ago when we were out of province (out of state for your American readers) I had to take him to the doctors. All I did was hand them his health card and we were seen. In some provinces it’s costs about $50 per month for basic health coverage, which isn’t a whole lot if you ask me. If you’re low income that cost is subsidized. Sure it isn’t perfect, and I may not get a private room but there is also extended health care insurance to cover the cost of prescriptions. Which most people can get through their employers.
If the Bush administration hadn’t put so much money into the War in Iraq, I am sure a fraction of that money could’ve covered the cost of healthcare. And If I am going to stir the pot, I will say I support the War on Terrorism but I do not support the War in Iraq. I believe that war as founded on lies as there were no weapons of mass destruction. A country should take care of their own before they worry about others. A fine example of the Bush Administration not taking care of their own would be Hurricane Katrina. If I am not mistaken the Bush Administration vetoed approved money on the levy’s in New Orleans and directed it elsewhere.
Hear hear, it is hard to understand the hysteria from this distance. But then many things about the US are alien to a european mind, including the fear of government and the need to keep government out of our lives. I find it extraordinary that conservatives have slogans like “keep government hands off my healthcare” and wondering what government will do to medicaid when Medicaid IS government run already. Whipping up hysteria seems to be all too easy, seems conservatives find obama distinctly scary. But then I bet in Texas they’d allow parents to keep their children out of a biology lesson about evolution, so nothing surprises me.
First comment here ever. I did what you did in reverse – I grew up in the UK and I moved to the US about 14 years ago.
The state of political discourse in the US at the moment is disgusting.
There are many reasons.
We have at least four 24-hour news stations that simply must fill their airtime. One, Fox News, has convinced a good portion of the population that all the others are biased, that they have an agenda, that they cannot be trusted. It is a brilliant business model. They have created a bully pulpit from which they can spew all sorts of nonsense and have their viewers hang on their every word as if it came from the messiah himself. If anyone dares dissent from Fox’s position, they’re socialists, they want to crush their opponents right to free speech (since when did a right to free speech mean that no-one gets to dissent?). MSNBC isn’t much better on the other side.
We also have a great proportion of our population on both sides who’re willing to accept a single source of information as gospel and not think critically for themselves.
As far as healthcare goes, it’s such a complex issue that even those with the inclination, intelligence and time to research it for themselves will end up struggling to make sense of it all. Many people are very happy with their insurance when in fact they’re woefully underinsured and will only find out when they max out their plan. Many dismiss the UK system without understanding that much of the public healthcare provided is provided by private companies or that people can still opt for private coverage if they so desire.
I see in the news today that Sarah Palin is once again pushing the ‘death panel’ fallacy on her endearing flock and I heard Newt Gingrich this morning explain that her position is entirely justified. If you have to make stuff up to make me look bad… what does that say about you?
@diamond dave – I’m hopeful we can bypass that whole “she has a political opinion, therefore she needs a death threat or two” as well. They are a real bummer as far as the evenings go.
@Matt-Fox News. I shudder. I believe Rupert Murdoch is the devil-I’ve never seen him standing, I imagine that’s to hide the forked tail. (also? Hi!)
I spent 5 weeks on a Study abroad at Cambridge University in England. I got hurt while I was there. Waited in the ER (no more, no less than I would in the US with my insurance or otherwise). X-rayed, saw the doc, walked out wrapped with crutches. Nobody ever asked me for a dime.
I live in the US, born and raised. But I’m 100% a proponent of national healthcare and fully believe that healthcare is a right, not a privilege. The problem to me is too many with the attitude of “i’ve got mine, screw you”. The death panel talk and the like is all smokescreen to get people to NOT look at the fact that the majority of the uninsured in this country are EMPLOYED. So we are not talking about people on the public handout and lazy, we are talking about the person who cuts your hair, who drives your tow trucks, who works at the gas station. People who work 50+ hours a week to barely make ends meet much less afford health insurance premiums. Those of us “lucky” enough to have insurance spend 20% of our gross income on our premiums (hand up here) and still pay out of pocket for many things.
I disagree that competition across public lines is the answer. How much do you love needing to call customer service only to find at 2pm on the West Coast that the office on the East coast is closed? No. We need TOTAL OVERHAUL.
I linked to this post in one of my own, rather than commenting here. :S I had too much to say for a small space.
I totally agree. Telling kids to work hard, do right, and make something of themselves can’t be a bad thing can it? Really? WTF is wrong with people?
[...] I read this post and it struck a very deep chord within me. I have filed bankruptcy once because I had health [...]
I think the problem is that many of the government agencies have abused the public trust to the point where they can’t count on the peoples’ faith on things like this anymore. Do you trust the FDA to oversee big Pharma? If they say a drug is safe, are you ready to take it, or do you wait until it’s been out awhile? How about the IRS? Are the tax codes easy, fair and well-administered? If you had an important package to send, would you use the USPS, or FedEx? Would you send your kids to your local public school if you could afford a private one? How do you think FEMA performed on Hurricaine Catrina, vs. the private charitable organizations? How do you feel the 911 fund was managed? Cash for Clunkers, have they paid all the car dealers, yet? I hear they left many holding the bag, because they didn’t keep real-time tabs on the number of cars being sold. I don’t want to rely on the American government for my health. I don’t want to hand them vested interest in my lifestyle. Much as the system is broken, handing the reins over to the government is the last thing I think will fix it. I don’t trust Obama’s motives, and I don’t believe the government is competent to handle such an important task.
As for Obama’s speech, I thought the furor was overblown. I am embarassed for my country on the state of political discourse right now. I blame the public schools for dumbing down the quality of education.
Am I missing something? Admittedly, my state is furthest from the US mainland, so maybe I’m not in touch with the climate over there, but I don’t find it shocking that people are fighting about healthcare and picking on Obama. That’s what always happens, especially in a bad economy. The Clintons tried to reform healthcare way back when, and had to abandon the effort because there was such an uproar. This is now new. I mean, in the sixties, didn’t people riot in the streets over issues of the day, burn things, take over buildings- like schools. Is it such a huge deal that a few kids didn’t hear Obama’s speech? I would have liked them to hear it, certainly, but I’m not up in arms over it.
I agree healthcare should be reformed, but I sure hope it doesn’t end up like the NHS. I experienced the NHS for 4 years- not a fan. My husband is a Brit and grew up there, he’s even less of a fan. I think healthcare should be argued out- isn’t that the only way to come to a compromise? As for the BBC; I used to be all about it. My husband and I used to read BBC online every day after moving from England. We stopped cold turkey over a year ago when neither of us could stomach it. It’s coverage has become so out of touch and blatantly biased. I shudder to think what they’re reporting.
I wont deny the NHS has its faults but as someone who is virtually uninsurable from a US perspective I am glad I am here and not there. Personally I would not trust a private company, whose only duty is to its shareholders, to run a system that should have the best interests of patients in mind as their first priority. I would go for not for profit/state run any time.
Oh and Jungletwins – the BBC biased and out of touch? On what exactly? Unless of course you take the view that the word of Murdoch is gospel in which case i can see your point.
Well the problem started when it was announced that he was going to give a speech to students. A curriculum guide was distributed via the Department of Education was given to teachers and the questions on there were controversial. That’s what originally had alot of people in an uproar and the fact that they wouldn’t release the speech ahead of time, so people were reading the tone of the original questions.
One of the questions was “How can I help President Obama?” That changes the tone a little bit in my opinion.
A week goes by, the curriculum guide was modified and that question along with a few others were deleted. The speech was changed but again, it was only released early Tuesday morning.
I’m ALL for Healthcare Reform, but not what is currently written about.
I don’t mind paying taxes for healthcare, but I do mind paying taxes for people that are in this country illegally to have healthcare.
One of the biggest cost savings would come in the form of Tort Reform, but you don’t hear the Democrats talking about that, because the Trial Lawyer lobbyists are talking in their ears.
I agree with Paula 100%.
Great post. As a physician who has been involved in this debate for years I would like to share some thoughts.
Tort reform is a red herring. In no state where tort reform has been passed has there been a decrease in premiums or decrease in medical care costs. Personal experience in two states: SC and GA.
The furor has nothing to do with health care and every thing to do with preserving the power and income of the insurance companies. Every viable plan will ensure the profitability of the insurers. The R’s have taken so much money they may be considered bought.
One has only to rembember the insurers are responsible to their investors and the insured is a cost center to be reduced at all costs. This leads to real rationing. We see it everyday.
The models beng discussed by the D’s are basically variations on the Swiss model which, I understand, works well.
I can provide good references to those who wish. Shannon can, I assume, provide those interesed with my e-mail. She has my permission to provide at ther discretion.
Your characteriztion of Sweden and the UK as socialist is, to be precise, not really true.
RE: AISD : what do you expect from people who did not appreciate you when you were there?
Hear hear! Having lived in France and the UK, to me free healthcare is a fundamental right. I was born in a teaching hospital in Germany which cost absolutely nothing to my parents. I can count on my fingers how many times I’ve had to pay to visit any kind of doctor in my 25 years of life (a cosmetic procedure once, a dentist a couple of times…). I’ve used the NHS a fair amount in my 7 years in the UK and, whilst it’s not perfect, it’s served me well. The French system is even better – my mother had breast cancer a few years ago, and she received the best drugs, the most technologically advanced treatment, all for nothing.
I find it mystifying that there are people out there who don’t think it is a right to be free of disease, to be treated for diseases which will ultimately be fatal. Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states: “Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.” It doesn’t say “everyone has a right to a standard of living as long as they’ve got the money to pay for it.”
Btw, I can’t believe some people still use the ‘foreigners/poor people are here to steal my healthcare and my money.’ I thought at this point we were past mindless racism? But then I guess a lot of Americans seem to think socialism is a bad thing, because why should you feel in any way responsible for the rest of society? Why should you care…? I wish people would learn the meaning of the word before equating it with communism, loss of control, overbuilt government, etc.
Sorry, this has now become a random rant of all kinds of things I’ve been discussed with American friends…!!! :) Great post, and hopefully it’ll get people thinking (and not hurling abuse!).
That school speech? Wonder what it might have been if all the publicity hadn’t hit so soon? There was plenty of time to smooth out the wrinkles and change the Pledge of Allegiance to Obama to the silly old serve your country nonsense. Just saying.
This is OT but relevant to the problem in America today. I was watching the YouTube clip of the town meeting with Baron Hill. This is Hill’s response when he is asked why the meeting can’t be recorded for a school project:
“Let me repeat that one more time. This is my town hall meeting for you. And you’re not going to tell me how to run my congressional office. Now, the reason why I don’t allow filming is that usually the films that are done end up on YouTube in a compromising position.”
Aside from the fact that of course it did end up on YouTube anyway, it is most certainly not his town meeting-it is for the people of Indiana-the very people he works for. It amazes me that career politicians forget that we will indeed tell them how to run their congressional office, and if they don’t listen to us we vote their asses out. Paula is spot on-it is all in self interest, and screw the people who they work for. This is America’s number one problem: government and politics have become one giant pissing contest, and people are lining up and taking sides, and won’t even pretend to entertain ideas that do not fit their own agenda.
*bravo!* You’re bang on.
DITTO! AMEN! BRAVO!
Slightly of topic,
With the exception of a couple little stingers being thrown in, everyone has been fairly polite in their responses, impressive.
I’m frustrated by the current administration continually sticking their nose in where it doesn’t belong. No where in the US Constitution does it say that the gov’t is required to provide health insurance, reduced priced cars, updated appliances, or to bail out companies that are no longer viable. The trend toward gov’t control of industry is not the way I think we should be going. I agree with you all that the health care system is broken. I agree that the school system needs to be revamped. However, throwing money at the problem hasn’t worked in the past and it is not working now. I think we need LESS gov’t. Despite what the Limosine Liberals think, they DO NOT know what is best for me and my family. Only I do.
I’m late commenting and didn’t have time to read everyone else’, so this may be redundant.
I let Angel1 & Angel2 hear Obama’s speech. I haven’t read it but will. I’ll let you know if there’s anything offensive to me. I was shocked when I heard people weren’t letting their kids hear it.
President Obama said a month or 2 ago that “America will have a national healthcare plan by the end of this year. I guarantee it, and we don’t need a bipartisan effort to do it.” I’m going from memory, but that’s close to an exact quote. The reason he’s listening to both sides now is that nearly 50% of the Democrats won’t vote for the plan; so he’s being bipartisan out of necessity not desire.
Does everyone deserve healthcare? In a society as “rich” as America’s, everyone should have basic healthcare, and for the most part, people do. Everyone talks about the “uninsured”, but go to any Emergency room, and you’ll see the “uninsured” getting treated and not paying for it. Is it perfect? No, but the uninsured are getting basic healthcare. But we can do better.
Competition is one of the things that made America great, but the Medical industry is regulated. Only so many doctors can graduate per year. Only so many hospitals can exist in a town. If we had 2 or 3 hospitals, they might figure out how to do things more efficiently just as any other industry does. But with little or no competition, there’s no incentive to reduce costs.
Plus no bill put forth has addressed law suits which is a huge cost for doctors. In North Carolina, a surgeon must pay $100,000/year for malpractice insurance. Further, he must continue paying for that insurance for 10 years after he retires. Reduce those costs, and the cost of surgery comes down significantly. But none of the trial lawyers in Congress or Congressmen supported by trial lawyers want to address that.
Here’s the big problem: once we get nationalized healthcare, there’s no turning back. We can’t say, “Ok, National Healthcare didn’t work out so good, so we’re disbanding it and returning everyone to their previous tax bracket.” So I’d just like to see us try other things first that we haven’t tried yet. Increase competition, reduce frivolous law suits, and reduce the “payoffs” for lawsuits to a few million.
Like it or not, America is already socialist. The gov’t already takes care of many people from the cradle to the grave and interferes with many aspects of our lives. But some of that is necessary and good.
Second comment here – not sure about the etiquette of responding to someone elses comments?
Solomon – I appreciate what you have to say on this but I have some questions:
1. My town (100k people) has 3 ‘competing’ hospitals. All are fully laden with the latest in medical technology. There are no waiting lists at any of the hospitals. So the issue surely cannot be that we don’t have the capacity for competition. Surely one item driving up costs is that 3 facilities all have MRI machines because they want to do the procedure and bill your insurance rather than pay a third party a competitive fee to supply MRI imaging using a single machine.
2. Coming from the UK and being horrified by some of the litigiousness one finds in the US, I am always interested when I see people calling for tort reform in the medical arena. I understand the desire but what are you really proposing? That doctors are immune from some mistakes? I’m no fan of litigation but I sure don’t want to be treated by a surgeon who can make mistakes without fear of financial consequences. Please understand I am not saying you are pushing that as a solution – I am asking what you propose to do…
3. Finally, please don’t say America is socialist. Taking care of people from cradle to grave has precisely ZERO to do with socialism (i.e. Socialism refers to various theories of economic organization advocating state, worker or public ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation.)
Cheers
Matt
I’m a Republican. I also pay over $1200 a month for insurance, since I stay at home with the kids and my husband is a consultant. I would dearly love a “public option” that would make health care available to us at less cost, or even free. However – to try and learn from the mistakes made by other countries who have done this (yes, even the UK has made some mistakes), it takes time to think about this and iron out all the details. SO – from that perspective I don’t want it rushed.
Second, there is literally no way for this to happen without a substantial tax increase, which for some reason, only the people on the conservative side (in both parties, as yes, there are conservative democrats) seem to realize, and seem to be trying to make people understand. Sure, some of our working poor want this initiative to go through, but do they understand that it WILL directly impact the amount of money they have to take home each week? Guarantee they don’t.
Third, there are a lot of us who don’t want those tax dollars we have to cough up to go for things we don’t believe in, such as abortion or health care for illegal aliens. And of course, that turns into two completely separate debates about whether abortion should even be legal in the first place, and how we fix the illegal immigration problem.
It’s not a black and white issue – and as much as I personally would love for Obama to be able to make this happen, at no substantial cost to me and mine – there’s just no way.
Right you are Matt. According to Wikipedia, Socialism is an economic mindset that advocates “state, worker or public ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources, and a society characterized by equal access to resources for all individuals with an egalitarian method of compensation” Everyone in America has equal access to water, electricity, mail, and other “resources” and some of those industries are gov’t owned and operated. Others (like electricity) are regulated so heavily by the gov’t, they might as well be running them. Who runs the military & law enforcement divisions? How about welfare? Again, I wasn’t saying these are necessarily bad…just pointing out we’re not a pure Capitalistic country anymore. Besides, how do you take care of someone from the cradle to the grave unless you have a system that allows that? :)
I also agree that duplication of resources (MRI machines, X-ray machines, and the likes) can increase cost. I can’t speak to your town’s hospital situation, but my town (of almost 400k people) only has 3 hospitals. Some competition may force some to reduce prices and outsource some of their services as you mentioned. It works in other industries.
Here’s what needs to be done with law suits. 1) Loser pays: if you bring a suit and lose, you pay both your costs & the defendant’s. That alone would drastically reduce suits. 2) Cap the award/penalty at a number that most people could live comfortably for the rest of their lives (5M?). Why make a surgeon pay 50M for cutting off the wrong leg? I understand it’s a horrific mistake, but would 50M bring back one’s leg anymore than 5M? And it’s not the doctor paying the 50M, so he’s really not the one penalized. 3) Prevent lawyers from sending letters to people who’ve been in accidents. Someone side-swiped me a few years ago, and I had 10 letters from attorneys within 2 days (no exaggeration). Plus if doctors weren’t worried about being sued all the time, they wouldn’t have to order so many extraneous tests just to cover their backsides. That would reduce costs.
All these things have yet to be tried. It would be easier to try tort reform, say it failed, and then allow law suits to resume than to try national healthcare, say it failed, and then go back to the way it was. Don’t you agree?
Solomon – that sounds pretty much like the English med negl. system which still eats up £100s of millions of NHS cash each year and about which people complain all the time.
I like what you wrote…I think it’s so simple, really…what we have going on right now doesn’t work. So it makes sense to try something else that might. I see a President who is trying his best to unite two parties and many philosophies. (A side note…That Wilson shouted out that Obama was a liar was completely inappropriate and a sign Wilson’s incompetance. He should resign. I don’t give a crap who is President…there are some things that are simply unacceptable.)
Pulling your kids out of school just so they wouldn’t hear a speech
I thought that the dustup over Obama’s speech was more than a bit overblown. I also thought that it was total crap when the Democrats actually investigated George Bush the elder when he gave a speech to schoolchildren back in the day. What both instances make me think is that there aren’t enough grownups on either side of the political aisle in DC to fill a VW Bug.
As far as I can work out, the only people AGAINST universal healthcare are those who already have good healthcare.
So, basically, I have something good, and I want to prevent other people from having something adequate, even though them having government healthcare is not going to stop me from having private healthcare.
The words “dog” and “manger” spring to mind.